Pepe, you made your debut with Municipal in 1987, but in a position that perhaps many don’t know… Did you do it as a goalkeeper?
I made my debut on June 7, 1987 playing on the right wing against Octavio Espinoza de Ica. But before I was without going to train for three months at the Municipal children, and here is the curious fact. The goalkeeper was not there and they had given me one last chance to stay in the minors and then as a punishment they put me to cover. We won. But I made my debut as a winger in a 4-3-3. I also played as a right back, holding midfielder, which was my natural position.
Although you were trained in ‘Muni’, together with your brother Jorge, were you always a fan of Alianza?
Always, all my life. Me and my family lived in front of the Matute stadium, in La Victoria, right in front of the south stand. I always entered the stadium in second place, the moment when the ticket holders left, and now everyone could enter for free. What’s more, when I played in Municipal I always went to the south to see Alianza. I was always a fan of Alianza.
You grew up in La Victoria and your family is closely linked to the Lord of Miracles, is that where your love for the blue and white comes from?
My dad is the general butler of the brotherhood of the Lord of Miracles, but he is a recontra fan of the ‘U’. My mom is also a fan of the ‘U’. Alianza for my part comes from my grandfather, he made me a fan of Alianza. The blue and white shirt was stronger than the cream. I’ve been a fan of Alianza since I can remember.
You arrived at Alianza Lima in 1993, where you established yourself and entered the heart of the fan. Then you go to Sporting Cristal in 1995, that was a rather controversial transfer for the time…
When I went from Municipal to Alianza, a tough situation happened to me because I had to replace one of the references, such as Juan Reynoso. Thank God, based on my game, my dedication, I was able to occupy the position of a high-class player like Juan was. Already by 1993 and 1994 the fan had become fond of me. From there my pass to Sporting Cristal was given. At that time, Cristal was the roof for all Peruvian soccer players, especially because of the economic issue. I was given that chance and then the story is known. But I don’t regret coming to Cristal because it opened the doors for me to play abroad and gave me the chance to win my first national title. Jorge was already in Cristal, and each one followed their own path.
After your time in Mexico, and twists and turns in Peruvian soccer, how did you get to Alianza in 2001, the year of the centenary?
At the end of 2000 I suffered a complicated knee injury. They operated on me, I didn’t know where I was going to go. The Alianza people didn’t know how it would turn out, but they still negotiated with my wife while I was in the operating room (laughs). It was already known that the technician was going to be Paulo Autuori, and he calls me out of the operating room and tells me that he was going to be one of the references.
Do you feel privileged to win the title on such a special date?
We are the only champion team in the year of its centenary, and one of the few in the whole world. All of us who were there at that moment were privileged, and I always thank God because he put me in the Alliance at the right time.
You won two national finals (2003 and 2004) against your brother Jorge, also an idol of Sporting Cristal. How did the family live the previous one?
We didn’t speak to each other before the finals. After those matches I always remember that he told Jorge: “how delicious it is to be a champion”, and he began to ‘itch’ (laughs).
Many players who aren’t Alianza fans, but who went through the club, always say that the ‘grone’ changing room has a special mystique…
I tell you so. Players who are not from Alianza, but have gone through the club, always want to come back. In my time as a player, sometimes people classified us as a ‘ring’ dressing room, difficult, complicated. But if so, why did everyone always want to go back? Alianza is intimacy, it is family, togetherness, that stands out in Alianza’s dressing room.
Who commanded that locker room with all the ‘heavyweights’ that were in your time?
I was more talkative, more direct, Waldir (Sáenz) not so much. (Juan) Jayo only raised his eyebrow and with his eyes the rest already knew what he wanted. Then came (Marko) Ciurlizza, (Gustavo) Roverano, who were leaders of their teams. ‘Pato’ Quinteros also came out. Sometimes they say that when there are many leaders, the team doesn’t work, but Alianza worked. We were brothers.
Is it true that you put a lot of corrective measures to the most ‘chibolos’?
They say so themselves. ‘Old Pepe’ educated us, of course he gave them a stick, but today everyone is happy with me. Jefferson (Farfán), Rinaldo (Cruzado), (Junior) Viza, ‘Wally’ (Sánchez), (Henry) Quinteros, (Marko) Ciurlizza, they always tell me: “you and Jayo raised us”. When we had to put a strong hand, he would, and when we let go, we let go. But when it came to defending them, the biggest ones were always there for them.
You saw Jefferson and Paolo grow in the Alianza minors, did you always have faith in them?
From the first day I saw Paolo and Jefferson I already knew that they were going to be cracks, and I remember saying: “they have to be taken care of.” Jefferson had a longer process in Alianza, Paolo played almost nothing, just one Graphic Cup. On the other hand, ‘Jeffry’ was key in the national titles of 2003 and 2004. But from the age of 15 it was already noticeable that they had crack paste.
Just like Jefferson or Paolo, what others stand out?
Actually, most of the category 84 made their debut in Alianza. I’m talking about Carlos Fernández, Rinaldo, Viza, ‘Wally’, Exar Rosales, Jair Céspedes, the truth is that very good players came out of that generation. Of the oldest I’ve seen, there’s already ‘Loverita’ Ramírez, Roberto Holsen, they all grew up with me and got used to winning. Remember that at that time, Alianza was the champion of the decade.
You were a teammate of Guillermo Salas for several years, are you glad that someone from the house takes the reins of the team?
Happy with life with ‘Chicho’. Because things are going well for him. Last year he grabbed a hot iron, the team was bad, and he took over at a difficult time. In the end he paid off with the national title, the dream of every coach. I talk a lot with him, I watch the training sessions. As I tell him, I’m happy as long as things go well for you. If things go wrong, I’ll be the first to pick you up. He is working for Alianza, and the club is doing well institutionally. Things are much easier.
In his time as a player, ‘Chicho’ already liked being a coach…
No not at all. The only ones that got bitten by the ‘bug’ were me and Jayo. After none. I talked a lot with Autuori, and he told me you have the dough to be a technician. ‘Chicho’ began to like him in 2009, around there. But Chicho did not give any indication of being a technician, but the truth is that he is doing very well.
What friends did Alianza leave you during your time at the club?
I have brothers in Alliance. They know who they are. We always frequent. But I can’t name one because they get jealous (laughs). Juan Jayo is my compadre, he is my daughter’s godfather and I am her son’s. I have a million friends as the singer Roberto Carlos says.
Do you like the Alliance that was formed for this 2023?
I think that against Sport Boys the team was anxious. But it was understandable. Because you prepare to play, you get ready for Sunday. Then you train and they tell you on Thursday that it will not be played. That wears out emotionally, psychologically annoys. And when the game arrives then it gives you anxiety. Alliance has good players. As time goes by it will improve.
How much will Carlos Zambrano contribute to this version of Alianza?
We all know the quality of Carlos. He played in big leagues, like Germany and Russia. In the most difficult in South America, like Argentina, and in the most complicated team like Boca Juniors. I think he will help Alianza a lot, especially the younger ones.
Would you like Christian Cueva to arrive?
One cannot live by rumors, when the Cueva thing materializes, it will be talked about. We don’t know what could happen, he has a problem with Santos, Pachuca. What is clear is that the ‘Dwarf’ is unquestionably a great player, a great person, one of the best players to have gone through the national team in my opinion.
Are you waiting for your revenge as DT in Alianza?
We would all like to lead Alianza. I don’t know if the time will come, but one still has to be prepared. I update myself, because now everything is technology, every day you learn something new. So we will wait calmly. For now, I am focused on Santos FC for the start of Liga 2.
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