At the head of the Supreme Court of Justice of Mexico, Arturo Zaldivarhas become one of the most visible public figures in Mexico, not only thanks to his popularity in tik tokbut also by having led historical decisions for the country such as declaring the criminalization of abortion and marijuana unconstitutional.
In this exclusive interview with EFE at the headquarters of the Supreme Court, he also comments on the wave of violence that Mexico is experiencing, society’s mistrust of Justice and his “cordial relationship” with Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador.
EFE: The case of Ayotzinapa in 2014 (the forced collective disappearance of 43 students from the rural school of that town in the state of Guerrero), is one of the greatest tragedies in the recent history of Mexico. In recent weeks, doubts have increased about the work of Justice. What do you think of the performance of Attorney General Alejandro Gertz? Do you think it is hindering the work of justice?
Zaldivar: Ayotzinapa is, without a doubt, one of the great tragedies of this country. It has been an investigation that has faced many problems throughout all these years. There is an authentic will that I have perceived in this Government to find a solution. And the result of the investigations, whether they are plausible or not, will be determined by the judges. I couldn’t make a demonstration of any kind. I have respect for the Attorney General of the Republic.
EFE: According to recent data, only 3 out of 100 intentional homicides are solved. Is impunity one of the big problems in Mexico?
Zaldívar: I don’t think that justice is totally fair in any country in the world. That justice is the same for everyone in practically all countries is an aspiration, it is not a reality. In Mexico, we do not have a culture of denunciation, most people are not satisfied with the work of prosecutors. It is common that when matters are prosecuted they are not sufficiently supported. On many occasions, judges have to release or declare acquittals, which generates discomfort in society. In this way, I think that in that sense we are left to duty.
But what is worse is that most of the people who are deprived of their liberty are poor people.who have not had an adequate defense and are totally unprotected against the powerful apparatus of the State.
EFE: So you don’t think that the high levels of violence in Mexico are increased by the feeling that very few people pay for crimes?
Zaldivar: What happens is that the levels of violence that we are seeing at the moment derive particularly from organized crime.. We are currently in Mexico living with very powerful criminal organizations that are the ones that generate most of this violence. Now, if there is another type of crime, for example very marked, they are the femicides. One of the perverse incentives is that they are not persecuted and when they are persecuted it is done badly. In certain criminal sectors, this issue of whoever commits the crime seems to go unpunished does have an impact.
EFE: Among the Mexican population it does seem that there is a mistrust of authority, the police, the judiciary, security. How can the Supreme Court work to reverse this mistrust that seems deeply rooted?
Zaldívar: In Mexico we have a problem of lack of legitimacy of the entire legal system. From the “obey but not comply”, which comes from Spain, it was generated since colonial times in the collective unconscious that one thing was what the law did and another thing what was done. We got used to this double standard. There are certain norms in the Constitution, in the law, but we knew that in practice they were not respected. And perhaps derived from this, men and women from Mexico have a perception that the law is at the service of the powerful.
EFE: What do you say to those who accuse you of being too close to Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador?
Zaldívar: First, it must be said that those who make these accusations are increasingly clear that they are doing so with a political agenda, that they are gratuitous disqualifications. Secondly, a cordial relationship, and dialogue with the President of the Republic, have been shared by all my predecessors. What happens is that the meetings I have had with President López Obrador are transparent, they are public, and before they were kept secret.
There are issues on which we have to discuss, especially at a time when the country is going through this security crisis, of violence to which you have alluded. The relationship, closeness and appreciation with the president has always been based on respect and trust, and on the independence of the Judiciary.
EFE: The Supreme Court has made decisions that can be described as progressive, such as the decriminalization of abortion. But it seems that the legislature is not in a hurry. To what do you attribute this inaction?
Zaldívar: The political process of rights in Mexico has been very particular because progress in rights has not been achieved in recent years in the legislative branch, but rather in the judicial branch. It has been the Court that has promoted the great transformations in terms of rights, everything that has to do with the reproductive and sexual rights of women, of equal marriage. What there is in Congress are political and electoral contests. We, instead of holding a referendum where people say if this right seems to them to be advanced, we have done it in a jurisdictional venue, which is peculiar, it is not common. That’s why, The Mexican Court is one of the most avant-garde courts in the worldnot only in America.
EFE: One of the most surprising elements of your mandate is this emphasis on new modes of communication, especially Tik Tok. What do you say to critics who call it frivolous?
Zaldívar: There is nothing frivolous about telling young people to respect animals, not to make hate speech, to discuss whether euthanasia is convenient or not, to understand through a song that is fashionable the roles of the woman and the man. The messages that I send on Tik Tok are not frivolous messages, they are very deep, but they are for a different audience.
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